"Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
news:B396005D-DCFC-4C0F-BD14-0E2870902D21@microsoft.com...
> We have one Microsoft Exchange server.  It is a clustered server and both
> nodes of the cluster have had the operating system upgraded to Windows
> 2003
> Enterprise SP2.  I have not upgraded Exchange to SP2 because of storage
> space
> issues.
>
> This is what I need some help and guidance on:
>
> We have a clustered resource drive called I: where Exchange and our main
> information store reside.  In the past, the container for our information
> store grew to the point that it used up all of the 135gbs of space on that
> drive.  I can not add any additional drives to this array, so,  I have no
> space available to apply the SP2 patch.  At least I don't think I do,
> since
> Microsoft recommends that I have 500mg available space to install the
> patch.
>
> My plan is to copy all of the data, including the information store and
> Exchange files to a 300gb drive that I have installed in the local drive
> bank
> of one of our clustered servers.  I would then like to shrink or compress
> the
> storage container to get it back down to a size that will fit on our
> array.
> Then move the data back to the clustered 135gb resource drive and apply
> the
> Exchange SP2 and daylight savings time patch.
>
> Complicating Issues:
>
> When our storage container hit the drive space limit on our clustered
> drive,
> I had one drive available in the physical array that I was using as a hot
> spare.  I attempted to use this drive to extend the partition that
> Exchange
> uses.  At the time, it was an emergency procedure and I was not able to
> get
> to to successfully work.  Ideally, while I have the Exchange data moved
> off
> to the 300gb drive I would like to rebuild the existing partition that the
> data resides on, and return the one drive back to a hot spare for the
> array.
> This would mean that the current I: would be destroyed and a new one
> created.
>
> Also, we use Backup Exec to backup the Exchange server.  I have never had
> to
> do a restore of the server or the Exchange data files.  Before I attempt
> to
> do any of this, I plan on restoring the current i: data from tape onto the
> 300gb drive to see if it actually has the correct data for exchange.  The
> backup system was originally set up by a consultant who was here for two
> days
> and said it worked.
> --
> Lee K Harris
> lee.har***@berbee.com

"Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:

> If you know that you'll be able to get a substantial amount of space back
> from compacting the database, then I suggest that you take a weekend outage
> and do this:
> 1.  Take a full online backup.
> 2.  Run ESEUTIL /D and direct the temporary files to use the temporary 300GB
> drive.
> 3.  Take a full online backup.
> --
> Ed Crowley
> MVP - Exchange
> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
>
> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
> news:B396005D-DCFC-4C0F-BD14-0E2870902D21@microsoft.com...
> > We have one Microsoft Exchange server.  It is a clustered server and both
> > nodes of the cluster have had the operating system upgraded to Windows
> > 2003
> > Enterprise SP2.  I have not upgraded Exchange to SP2 because of storage
> > space
> > issues.
> >
> > This is what I need some help and guidance on:
> >
> > We have a clustered resource drive called I: where Exchange and our main
> > information store reside.  In the past, the container for our information
> > store grew to the point that it used up all of the 135gbs of space on that
> > drive.  I can not add any additional drives to this array, so,  I have no
> > space available to apply the SP2 patch.  At least I don't think I do,
> > since
> > Microsoft recommends that I have 500mg available space to install the
> > patch.
> >
> > My plan is to copy all of the data, including the information store and
> > Exchange files to a 300gb drive that I have installed in the local drive
> > bank
> > of one of our clustered servers.  I would then like to shrink or compress
> > the
> > storage container to get it back down to a size that will fit on our
> > array.
> > Then move the data back to the clustered 135gb resource drive and apply
> > the
> > Exchange SP2 and daylight savings time patch.
> >
> > Complicating Issues:
> >
> > When our storage container hit the drive space limit on our clustered
> > drive,
> > I had one drive available in the physical array that I was using as a hot
> > spare.  I attempted to use this drive to extend the partition that
> > Exchange
> > uses.  At the time, it was an emergency procedure and I was not able to
> > get
> > to to successfully work.  Ideally, while I have the Exchange data moved
> > off
> > to the 300gb drive I would like to rebuild the existing partition that the
> > data resides on, and return the one drive back to a hot spare for the
> > array.
> > This would mean that the current I: would be destroyed and a new one
> > created.
> >
> > Also, we use Backup Exec to backup the Exchange server.  I have never had
> > to
> > do a restore of the server or the Exchange data files.  Before I attempt
> > to
> > do any of this, I plan on restoring the current i: data from tape onto the
> > 300gb drive to see if it actually has the correct data for exchange.  The
> > backup system was originally set up by a consultant who was here for two
> > days
> > and said it worked.
> > --
> > Lee K Harris
> > lee.har***@berbee.com
>
>
>

"Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
news:23FD3508-B84C-4AF6-B05B-997B2F9D23BC@microsoft.com...
> Could you provide me with all of the possible options that might be
> available
> with my type of situation so I can weigh each of them and decide which one
> I
> will do.
> --
> Lee K Harris
> lee.har***@berbee.com
>
>
> "Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:
>
>> If you know that you'll be able to get a substantial amount of space back
>> from compacting the database, then I suggest that you take a weekend
>> outage
>> and do this:
>> 1.  Take a full online backup.
>> 2.  Run ESEUTIL /D and direct the temporary files to use the temporary
>> 300GB
>> drive.
>> 3.  Take a full online backup.
>> --
>> Ed Crowley
>> MVP - Exchange
>> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
>>
>> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
>> news:B396005D-DCFC-4C0F-BD14-0E2870902D21@microsoft.com...
>> > We have one Microsoft Exchange server.  It is a clustered server and
>> > both
>> > nodes of the cluster have had the operating system upgraded to Windows
>> > 2003
>> > Enterprise SP2.  I have not upgraded Exchange to SP2 because of storage
>> > space
>> > issues.
>> >
>> > This is what I need some help and guidance on:
>> >
>> > We have a clustered resource drive called I: where Exchange and our
>> > main
>> > information store reside.  In the past, the container for our
>> > information
>> > store grew to the point that it used up all of the 135gbs of space on
>> > that
>> > drive.  I can not add any additional drives to this array, so,  I have
>> > no
>> > space available to apply the SP2 patch.  At least I don't think I do,
>> > since
>> > Microsoft recommends that I have 500mg available space to install the
>> > patch.
>> >
>> > My plan is to copy all of the data, including the information store and
>> > Exchange files to a 300gb drive that I have installed in the local
>> > drive
>> > bank
>> > of one of our clustered servers.  I would then like to shrink or
>> > compress
>> > the
>> > storage container to get it back down to a size that will fit on our
>> > array.
>> > Then move the data back to the clustered 135gb resource drive and apply
>> > the
>> > Exchange SP2 and daylight savings time patch.
>> >
>> > Complicating Issues:
>> >
>> > When our storage container hit the drive space limit on our clustered
>> > drive,
>> > I had one drive available in the physical array that I was using as a
>> > hot
>> > spare.  I attempted to use this drive to extend the partition that
>> > Exchange
>> > uses.  At the time, it was an emergency procedure and I was not able to
>> > get
>> > to to successfully work.  Ideally, while I have the Exchange data moved
>> > off
>> > to the 300gb drive I would like to rebuild the existing partition that
>> > the
>> > data resides on, and return the one drive back to a hot spare for the
>> > array.
>> > This would mean that the current I: would be destroyed and a new one
>> > created.
>> >
>> > Also, we use Backup Exec to backup the Exchange server.  I have never
>> > had
>> > to
>> > do a restore of the server or the Exchange data files.  Before I
>> > attempt
>> > to
>> > do any of this, I plan on restoring the current i: data from tape onto
>> > the
>> > 300gb drive to see if it actually has the correct data for exchange.
>> > The
>> > backup system was originally set up by a consultant who was here for
>> > two
>> > days
>> > and said it worked.
>> > --
>> > Lee K Harris
>> > lee.har***@berbee.com
>>
>>
>>

"Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:

> Not without a consulting contract, sorry.
> --
> Ed Crowley
> MVP - Exchange
> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
>
> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
> news:23FD3508-B84C-4AF6-B05B-997B2F9D23BC@microsoft.com...
> > Could you provide me with all of the possible options that might be
> > available
> > with my type of situation so I can weigh each of them and decide which one
> > I
> > will do.
> > --
> > Lee K Harris
> > lee.har***@berbee.com
> >
> >
> > "Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:
> >
> >> If you know that you'll be able to get a substantial amount of space back
> >> from compacting the database, then I suggest that you take a weekend
> >> outage
> >> and do this:
> >> 1.  Take a full online backup.
> >> 2.  Run ESEUTIL /D and direct the temporary files to use the temporary
> >> 300GB
> >> drive.
> >> 3.  Take a full online backup.
> >> --
> >> Ed Crowley
> >> MVP - Exchange
> >> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
> >>
> >> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
> >> news:B396005D-DCFC-4C0F-BD14-0E2870902D21@microsoft.com...
> >> > We have one Microsoft Exchange server.  It is a clustered server and
> >> > both
> >> > nodes of the cluster have had the operating system upgraded to Windows
> >> > 2003
> >> > Enterprise SP2.  I have not upgraded Exchange to SP2 because of storage
> >> > space
> >> > issues.
> >> >
> >> > This is what I need some help and guidance on:
> >> >
> >> > We have a clustered resource drive called I: where Exchange and our
> >> > main
> >> > information store reside.  In the past, the container for our
> >> > information
> >> > store grew to the point that it used up all of the 135gbs of space on
> >> > that
> >> > drive.  I can not add any additional drives to this array, so,  I have
> >> > no
> >> > space available to apply the SP2 patch.  At least I don't think I do,
> >> > since
> >> > Microsoft recommends that I have 500mg available space to install the
> >> > patch.
> >> >
> >> > My plan is to copy all of the data, including the information store and
> >> > Exchange files to a 300gb drive that I have installed in the local
> >> > drive
> >> > bank
> >> > of one of our clustered servers.  I would then like to shrink or
> >> > compress
> >> > the
> >> > storage container to get it back down to a size that will fit on our
> >> > array.
> >> > Then move the data back to the clustered 135gb resource drive and apply
> >> > the
> >> > Exchange SP2 and daylight savings time patch.
> >> >
> >> > Complicating Issues:
> >> >
> >> > When our storage container hit the drive space limit on our clustered
> >> > drive,
> >> > I had one drive available in the physical array that I was using as a
> >> > hot
> >> > spare.  I attempted to use this drive to extend the partition that
> >> > Exchange
> >> > uses.  At the time, it was an emergency procedure and I was not able to
> >> > get
> >> > to to successfully work.  Ideally, while I have the Exchange data moved
> >> > off
> >> > to the 300gb drive I would like to rebuild the existing partition that
> >> > the
> >> > data resides on, and return the one drive back to a hot spare for the
> >> > array.
> >> > This would mean that the current I: would be destroyed and a new one
> >> > created.
> >> >
> >> > Also, we use Backup Exec to backup the Exchange server.  I have never
> >> > had
> >> > to
> >> > do a restore of the server or the Exchange data files.  Before I
> >> > attempt
> >> > to
> >> > do any of this, I plan on restoring the current i: data from tape onto
> >> > the
> >> > 300gb drive to see if it actually has the correct data for exchange.
> >> > The
> >> > backup system was originally set up by a consultant who was here for
> >> > two
> >> > days
> >> > and said it worked.
> >> > --
> >> > Lee K Harris
> >> > lee.har***@berbee.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>
>

"Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
news:1A744C48-1B79-4915-8BB8-50922E1BB677@microsoft.com...
> Sorry I mistaked this for a helpful forum not one soliciting sales.
> Thanks
> for the help.
>
> After all the definition of this medium is:
>
> TechNet Managed Newsgroups are available at no charge 24 x 7 to TechNet
> Plus
> subscribers to receive complimentary technical support on select Microsoft
> technologies as well as to share ideas with the community.
>
> TechNet Managed Newsgroups provide:
>
> Unlimited online technical support - Exchange information with your peers
> as
> well as gain assistance from Microsoft MVPs and Microsoft Support
> Professionals.
> A commitment to respond to your post by the next business day (English
> only).
> Over 100 English newsgroups to choose from.
> Spam protection for your e-mail address when posting items
>
> You should not be providing input if all your doing is looking for work.
> --
> Lee K Harris
> lee.har***@berbee.com
>
>
> "Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:
>
>> Not without a consulting contract, sorry.
>> --
>> Ed Crowley
>> MVP - Exchange
>> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
>>
>> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
>> news:23FD3508-B84C-4AF6-B05B-997B2F9D23BC@microsoft.com...
>> > Could you provide me with all of the possible options that might be
>> > available
>> > with my type of situation so I can weigh each of them and decide which
>> > one
>> > I
>> > will do.
>> > --
>> > Lee K Harris
>> > lee.har***@berbee.com
>> >
>> >
>> > "Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:
>> >
>> >> If you know that you'll be able to get a substantial amount of space
>> >> back
>> >> from compacting the database, then I suggest that you take a weekend
>> >> outage
>> >> and do this:
>> >> 1.  Take a full online backup.
>> >> 2.  Run ESEUTIL /D and direct the temporary files to use the temporary
>> >> 300GB
>> >> drive.
>> >> 3.  Take a full online backup.
>> >> --
>> >> Ed Crowley
>> >> MVP - Exchange
>> >> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
>> >>
>> >> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:B396005D-DCFC-4C0F-BD14-0E2870902D21@microsoft.com...
>> >> > We have one Microsoft Exchange server.  It is a clustered server and
>> >> > both
>> >> > nodes of the cluster have had the operating system upgraded to
>> >> > Windows
>> >> > 2003
>> >> > Enterprise SP2.  I have not upgraded Exchange to SP2 because of
>> >> > storage
>> >> > space
>> >> > issues.
>> >> >
>> >> > This is what I need some help and guidance on:
>> >> >
>> >> > We have a clustered resource drive called I: where Exchange and our
>> >> > main
>> >> > information store reside.  In the past, the container for our
>> >> > information
>> >> > store grew to the point that it used up all of the 135gbs of space
>> >> > on
>> >> > that
>> >> > drive.  I can not add any additional drives to this array, so,  I
>> >> > have
>> >> > no
>> >> > space available to apply the SP2 patch.  At least I don't think I
>> >> > do,
>> >> > since
>> >> > Microsoft recommends that I have 500mg available space to install
>> >> > the
>> >> > patch.
>> >> >
>> >> > My plan is to copy all of the data, including the information store
>> >> > and
>> >> > Exchange files to a 300gb drive that I have installed in the local
>> >> > drive
>> >> > bank
>> >> > of one of our clustered servers.  I would then like to shrink or
>> >> > compress
>> >> > the
>> >> > storage container to get it back down to a size that will fit on our
>> >> > array.
>> >> > Then move the data back to the clustered 135gb resource drive and
>> >> > apply
>> >> > the
>> >> > Exchange SP2 and daylight savings time patch.
>> >> >
>> >> > Complicating Issues:
>> >> >
>> >> > When our storage container hit the drive space limit on our
>> >> > clustered
>> >> > drive,
>> >> > I had one drive available in the physical array that I was using as
>> >> > a
>> >> > hot
>> >> > spare.  I attempted to use this drive to extend the partition that
>> >> > Exchange
>> >> > uses.  At the time, it was an emergency procedure and I was not able
>> >> > to
>> >> > get
>> >> > to to successfully work.  Ideally, while I have the Exchange data
>> >> > moved
>> >> > off
>> >> > to the 300gb drive I would like to rebuild the existing partition
>> >> > that
>> >> > the
>> >> > data resides on, and return the one drive back to a hot spare for
>> >> > the
>> >> > array.
>> >> > This would mean that the current I: would be destroyed and a new one
>> >> > created.
>> >> >
>> >> > Also, we use Backup Exec to backup the Exchange server.  I have
>> >> > never
>> >> > had
>> >> > to
>> >> > do a restore of the server or the Exchange data files.  Before I
>> >> > attempt
>> >> > to
>> >> > do any of this, I plan on restoring the current i: data from tape
>> >> > onto
>> >> > the
>> >> > 300gb drive to see if it actually has the correct data for exchange.
>> >> > The
>> >> > backup system was originally set up by a consultant who was here for
>> >> > two
>> >> > days
>> >> > and said it worked.
>> >> > --
>> >> > Lee K Harris
>> >> > lee.har***@berbee.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>>

"Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:

> I wasn't offering my services, actually, as all of my time is spoken for by
> my employer.  I was just suggesting, if too obliquely, that you are asking
> for a level of effort that requires the kind of effort for which you would
> need to hire a consultat.
> --
> Ed Crowley
> MVP - Exchange
> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
>
> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
> news:1A744C48-1B79-4915-8BB8-50922E1BB677@microsoft.com...
> > Sorry I mistaked this for a helpful forum not one soliciting sales.
> > Thanks
> > for the help.
> >
> > After all the definition of this medium is:
> >
> > TechNet Managed Newsgroups are available at no charge 24 x 7 to TechNet
> > Plus
> > subscribers to receive complimentary technical support on select Microsoft
> > technologies as well as to share ideas with the community.
> >
> > TechNet Managed Newsgroups provide:
> >
> > Unlimited online technical support - Exchange information with your peers
> > as
> > well as gain assistance from Microsoft MVPs and Microsoft Support
> > Professionals.
> > A commitment to respond to your post by the next business day (English
> > only).
> > Over 100 English newsgroups to choose from.
> > Spam protection for your e-mail address when posting items
> >
> > You should not be providing input if all your doing is looking for work.
> > --
> > Lee K Harris
> > lee.har***@berbee.com
> >
> >
> > "Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:
> >
> >> Not without a consulting contract, sorry.
> >> --
> >> Ed Crowley
> >> MVP - Exchange
> >> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
> >>
> >> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
> >> news:23FD3508-B84C-4AF6-B05B-997B2F9D23BC@microsoft.com...
> >> > Could you provide me with all of the possible options that might be
> >> > available
> >> > with my type of situation so I can weigh each of them and decide which
> >> > one
> >> > I
> >> > will do.
> >> > --
> >> > Lee K Harris
> >> > lee.har***@berbee.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > "Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> If you know that you'll be able to get a substantial amount of space
> >> >> back
> >> >> from compacting the database, then I suggest that you take a weekend
> >> >> outage
> >> >> and do this:
> >> >> 1.  Take a full online backup.
> >> >> 2.  Run ESEUTIL /D and direct the temporary files to use the temporary
> >> >> 300GB
> >> >> drive.
> >> >> 3.  Take a full online backup.
> >> >> --
> >> >> Ed Crowley
> >> >> MVP - Exchange
> >> >> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
> >> >>
> >> >> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
> >> >> news:B396005D-DCFC-4C0F-BD14-0E2870902D21@microsoft.com...
> >> >> > We have one Microsoft Exchange server.  It is a clustered server and
> >> >> > both
> >> >> > nodes of the cluster have had the operating system upgraded to
> >> >> > Windows
> >> >> > 2003
> >> >> > Enterprise SP2.  I have not upgraded Exchange to SP2 because of
> >> >> > storage
> >> >> > space
> >> >> > issues.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > This is what I need some help and guidance on:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > We have a clustered resource drive called I: where Exchange and our
> >> >> > main
> >> >> > information store reside.  In the past, the container for our
> >> >> > information
> >> >> > store grew to the point that it used up all of the 135gbs of space
> >> >> > on
> >> >> > that
> >> >> > drive.  I can not add any additional drives to this array, so,  I
> >> >> > have
> >> >> > no
> >> >> > space available to apply the SP2 patch.  At least I don't think I
> >> >> > do,
> >> >> > since
> >> >> > Microsoft recommends that I have 500mg available space to install
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > patch.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > My plan is to copy all of the data, including the information store
> >> >> > and
> >> >> > Exchange files to a 300gb drive that I have installed in the local
> >> >> > drive
> >> >> > bank
> >> >> > of one of our clustered servers.  I would then like to shrink or
> >> >> > compress
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > storage container to get it back down to a size that will fit on our
> >> >> > array.
> >> >> > Then move the data back to the clustered 135gb resource drive and
> >> >> > apply
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > Exchange SP2 and daylight savings time patch.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Complicating Issues:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > When our storage container hit the drive space limit on our
> >> >> > clustered
> >> >> > drive,
> >> >> > I had one drive available in the physical array that I was using as
> >> >> > a
> >> >> > hot
> >> >> > spare.  I attempted to use this drive to extend the partition that
> >> >> > Exchange
> >> >> > uses.  At the time, it was an emergency procedure and I was not able
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > get
> >> >> > to to successfully work.  Ideally, while I have the Exchange data
> >> >> > moved
> >> >> > off
> >> >> > to the 300gb drive I would like to rebuild the existing partition
> >> >> > that
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > data resides on, and return the one drive back to a hot spare for
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > array.
> >> >> > This would mean that the current I: would be destroyed and a new one
> >> >> > created.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Also, we use Backup Exec to backup the Exchange server.  I have
> >> >> > never
> >> >> > had
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > do a restore of the server or the Exchange data files.  Before I
> >> >> > attempt
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > do any of this, I plan on restoring the current i: data from tape
> >> >> > onto
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > 300gb drive to see if it actually has the correct data for exchange.
> >> >> > The
> >> >> > backup system was originally set up by a consultant who was here for
> >> >> > two
> >> >> > days
> >> >> > and said it worked.
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > Lee K Harris
> >> >> > lee.har***@berbee.com
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>
>

"Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
news:29FE29C5-823D-4507-A800-F3E4C71B2D8E@microsoft.com...
> This is a forum to ask questions and to seek specific guidance for issues
> and
> ways to correct problems an individual is having. I have no reason to hire
> a
> consultant to perform work I am completely capable of doing myself. Before
> I
> go messing things up because I am not following recommended Microsoft
> practices where a problem like mine is concerned I was seeking guidance as
> to
> the best possible route to take.
>
> I was not looking for someone to offer me advice on hiring a consultant.
> If
> you dont know the answer thats fine dont respond.
>
> I am sorry all your time is spoken for by your employer.  i guess you
> should
> not be participating in the newsgroup forums then. This is a helpful
> medium
> for individuals like me.  Your information was not not helpful.
>
> --
> Lee K Harris
> lee.har***@berbee.com
>
>
> "Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:
>
>> I wasn't offering my services, actually, as all of my time is spoken for
>> by
>> my employer.  I was just suggesting, if too obliquely, that you are
>> asking
>> for a level of effort that requires the kind of effort for which you
>> would
>> need to hire a consultat.
>> --
>> Ed Crowley
>> MVP - Exchange
>> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
>>
>> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
>> news:1A744C48-1B79-4915-8BB8-50922E1BB677@microsoft.com...
>> > Sorry I mistaked this for a helpful forum not one soliciting sales.
>> > Thanks
>> > for the help.
>> >
>> > After all the definition of this medium is:
>> >
>> > TechNet Managed Newsgroups are available at no charge 24 x 7 to TechNet
>> > Plus
>> > subscribers to receive complimentary technical support on select
>> > Microsoft
>> > technologies as well as to share ideas with the community.
>> >
>> > TechNet Managed Newsgroups provide:
>> >
>> > Unlimited online technical support - Exchange information with your
>> > peers
>> > as
>> > well as gain assistance from Microsoft MVPs and Microsoft Support
>> > Professionals.
>> > A commitment to respond to your post by the next business day (English
>> > only).
>> > Over 100 English newsgroups to choose from.
>> > Spam protection for your e-mail address when posting items
>> >
>> > You should not be providing input if all your doing is looking for
>> > work.
>> > --
>> > Lee K Harris
>> > lee.har***@berbee.com
>> >
>> >
>> > "Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:
>> >
>> >> Not without a consulting contract, sorry.
>> >> --
>> >> Ed Crowley
>> >> MVP - Exchange
>> >> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
>> >>
>> >> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:23FD3508-B84C-4AF6-B05B-997B2F9D23BC@microsoft.com...
>> >> > Could you provide me with all of the possible options that might be
>> >> > available
>> >> > with my type of situation so I can weigh each of them and decide
>> >> > which
>> >> > one
>> >> > I
>> >> > will do.
>> >> > --
>> >> > Lee K Harris
>> >> > lee.har***@berbee.com
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > "Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> If you know that you'll be able to get a substantial amount of
>> >> >> space
>> >> >> back
>> >> >> from compacting the database, then I suggest that you take a
>> >> >> weekend
>> >> >> outage
>> >> >> and do this:
>> >> >> 1.  Take a full online backup.
>> >> >> 2.  Run ESEUTIL /D and direct the temporary files to use the
>> >> >> temporary
>> >> >> 300GB
>> >> >> drive.
>> >> >> 3.  Take a full online backup.
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Ed Crowley
>> >> >> MVP - Exchange
>> >> >> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:B396005D-DCFC-4C0F-BD14-0E2870902D21@microsoft.com...
>> >> >> > We have one Microsoft Exchange server.  It is a clustered server
>> >> >> > and
>> >> >> > both
>> >> >> > nodes of the cluster have had the operating system upgraded to
>> >> >> > Windows
>> >> >> > 2003
>> >> >> > Enterprise SP2.  I have not upgraded Exchange to SP2 because of
>> >> >> > storage
>> >> >> > space
>> >> >> > issues.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > This is what I need some help and guidance on:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > We have a clustered resource drive called I: where Exchange and
>> >> >> > our
>> >> >> > main
>> >> >> > information store reside.  In the past, the container for our
>> >> >> > information
>> >> >> > store grew to the point that it used up all of the 135gbs of
>> >> >> > space
>> >> >> > on
>> >> >> > that
>> >> >> > drive.  I can not add any additional drives to this array, so,  I
>> >> >> > have
>> >> >> > no
>> >> >> > space available to apply the SP2 patch.  At least I don't think I
>> >> >> > do,
>> >> >> > since
>> >> >> > Microsoft recommends that I have 500mg available space to install
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > patch.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > My plan is to copy all of the data, including the information
>> >> >> > store
>> >> >> > and
>> >> >> > Exchange files to a 300gb drive that I have installed in the
>> >> >> > local
>> >> >> > drive
>> >> >> > bank
>> >> >> > of one of our clustered servers.  I would then like to shrink or
>> >> >> > compress
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > storage container to get it back down to a size that will fit on
>> >> >> > our
>> >> >> > array.
>> >> >> > Then move the data back to the clustered 135gb resource drive and
>> >> >> > apply
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > Exchange SP2 and daylight savings time patch.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Complicating Issues:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > When our storage container hit the drive space limit on our
>> >> >> > clustered
>> >> >> > drive,
>> >> >> > I had one drive available in the physical array that I was using
>> >> >> > as
>> >> >> > a
>> >> >> > hot
>> >> >> > spare.  I attempted to use this drive to extend the partition
>> >> >> > that
>> >> >> > Exchange
>> >> >> > uses.  At the time, it was an emergency procedure and I was not
>> >> >> > able
>> >> >> > to
>> >> >> > get
>> >> >> > to to successfully work.  Ideally, while I have the Exchange data
>> >> >> > moved
>> >> >> > off
>> >> >> > to the 300gb drive I would like to rebuild the existing partition
>> >> >> > that
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > data resides on, and return the one drive back to a hot spare for
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > array.
>> >> >> > This would mean that the current I: would be destroyed and a new
>> >> >> > one
>> >> >> > created.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Also, we use Backup Exec to backup the Exchange server.  I have
>> >> >> > never
>> >> >> > had
>> >> >> > to
>> >> >> > do a restore of the server or the Exchange data files.  Before I
>> >> >> > attempt
>> >> >> > to
>> >> >> > do any of this, I plan on restoring the current i: data from tape
>> >> >> > onto
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > 300gb drive to see if it actually has the correct data for
>> >> >> > exchange.
>> >> >> > The
>> >> >> > backup system was originally set up by a consultant who was here
>> >> >> > for
>> >> >> > two
>> >> >> > days
>> >> >> > and said it worked.
>> >> >> > --
>> >> >> > Lee K Harris
>> >> >> > lee.har***@berbee.com
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>>

"Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:

> If you're capable of doing it yourself, why are you asking here?  Let's
> review what you asked for:
>
> "Could you provide me with all of the possible options that might be
> available with my type of situation so I can weigh each of them and decide
> which one I will do."
>
> That is a research paper.  You're asking for someone to do a lot of leg work
> for you and that's what consultants are paid to do.  I've given you some
> pretty damn good advice, but I'm definitely not of the mind presently to
> write a research paper for you outlining all possible options for you to
> consider, especially not that I now have a very good indication what kind of
> character you are.
>
> Good day.
> --
> Ed Crowley
> MVP - Exchange
> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
>
> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
> news:29FE29C5-823D-4507-A800-F3E4C71B2D8E@microsoft.com...
> > This is a forum to ask questions and to seek specific guidance for issues
> > and
> > ways to correct problems an individual is having. I have no reason to hire
> > a
> > consultant to perform work I am completely capable of doing myself. Before
> > I
> > go messing things up because I am not following recommended Microsoft
> > practices where a problem like mine is concerned I was seeking guidance as
> > to
> > the best possible route to take.
> >
> > I was not looking for someone to offer me advice on hiring a consultant.
> > If
> > you dont know the answer thats fine dont respond.
> >
> > I am sorry all your time is spoken for by your employer.  i guess you
> > should
> > not be participating in the newsgroup forums then. This is a helpful
> > medium
> > for individuals like me.  Your information was not not helpful.
> >
> > --
> > Lee K Harris
> > lee.har***@berbee.com
> >
> >
> > "Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:
> >
> >> I wasn't offering my services, actually, as all of my time is spoken for
> >> by
> >> my employer.  I was just suggesting, if too obliquely, that you are
> >> asking
> >> for a level of effort that requires the kind of effort for which you
> >> would
> >> need to hire a consultat.
> >> --
> >> Ed Crowley
> >> MVP - Exchange
> >> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
> >>
> >> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1A744C48-1B79-4915-8BB8-50922E1BB677@microsoft.com...
> >> > Sorry I mistaked this for a helpful forum not one soliciting sales.
> >> > Thanks
> >> > for the help.
> >> >
> >> > After all the definition of this medium is:
> >> >
> >> > TechNet Managed Newsgroups are available at no charge 24 x 7 to TechNet
> >> > Plus
> >> > subscribers to receive complimentary technical support on select
> >> > Microsoft
> >> > technologies as well as to share ideas with the community.
> >> >
> >> > TechNet Managed Newsgroups provide:
> >> >
> >> > Unlimited online technical support - Exchange information with your
> >> > peers
> >> > as
> >> > well as gain assistance from Microsoft MVPs and Microsoft Support
> >> > Professionals.
> >> > A commitment to respond to your post by the next business day (English
> >> > only).
> >> > Over 100 English newsgroups to choose from.
> >> > Spam protection for your e-mail address when posting items
> >> >
> >> > You should not be providing input if all your doing is looking for
> >> > work.
> >> > --
> >> > Lee K Harris
> >> > lee.har***@berbee.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > "Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Not without a consulting contract, sorry.
> >> >> --
> >> >> Ed Crowley
> >> >> MVP - Exchange
> >> >> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
> >> >>
> >> >> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
> >> >> news:23FD3508-B84C-4AF6-B05B-997B2F9D23BC@microsoft.com...
> >> >> > Could you provide me with all of the possible options that might be
> >> >> > available
> >> >> > with my type of situation so I can weigh each of them and decide
> >> >> > which
> >> >> > one
> >> >> > I
> >> >> > will do.
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > Lee K Harris
> >> >> > lee.har***@berbee.com
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> If you know that you'll be able to get a substantial amount of
> >> >> >> space
> >> >> >> back
> >> >> >> from compacting the database, then I suggest that you take a
> >> >> >> weekend
> >> >> >> outage
> >> >> >> and do this:
> >> >> >> 1.  Take a full online backup.
> >> >> >> 2.  Run ESEUTIL /D and direct the temporary files to use the
> >> >> >> temporary
> >> >> >> 300GB
> >> >> >> drive.
> >> >> >> 3.  Take a full online backup.
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> Ed Crowley
> >> >> >> MVP - Exchange
> >> >> >> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
> >> >> >> news:B396005D-DCFC-4C0F-BD14-0E2870902D21@microsoft.com...
> >> >> >> > We have one Microsoft Exchange server.  It is a clustered server
> >> >> >> > and
> >> >> >> > both
> >> >> >> > nodes of the cluster have had the operating system upgraded to
> >> >> >> > Windows
> >> >> >> > 2003
> >> >> >> > Enterprise SP2.  I have not upgraded Exchange to SP2 because of
> >> >> >> > storage
> >> >> >> > space
> >> >> >> > issues.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > This is what I need some help and guidance on:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > We have a clustered resource drive called I: where Exchange and
> >> >> >> > our
> >> >> >> > main
> >> >> >> > information store reside.  In the past, the container for our
> >> >> >> > information
> >> >> >> > store grew to the point that it used up all of the 135gbs of
> >> >> >> > space
> >> >> >> > on
> >> >> >> > that
> >> >> >> > drive.  I can not add any additional drives to this array, so,  I
> >> >> >> > have
> >> >> >> > no
> >> >> >> > space available to apply the SP2 patch.  At least I don't think I
> >> >> >> > do,
> >> >> >> > since
> >> >> >> > Microsoft recommends that I have 500mg available space to install
> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> > patch.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > My plan is to copy all of the data, including the information
> >> >> >> > store
> >> >> >> > and
> >> >> >> > Exchange files to a 300gb drive that I have installed in the
> >> >> >> > local
> >> >> >> > drive
> >> >> >> > bank
> >> >> >> > of one of our clustered servers.  I would then like to shrink or
> >> >> >> > compress
> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> > storage container to get it back down to a size that will fit on
> >> >> >> > our
> >> >> >> > array.
> >> >> >> > Then move the data back to the clustered 135gb resource drive and
> >> >> >> > apply
> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> > Exchange SP2 and daylight savings time patch.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Complicating Issues:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > When our storage container hit the drive space limit on our
> >> >> >> > clustered
> >> >> >> > drive,
> >> >> >> > I had one drive available in the physical array that I was using
> >> >> >> > as
> >> >> >> > a
> >> >> >> > hot
> >> >> >> > spare.  I attempted to use this drive to extend the partition
> >> >> >> > that
> >> >> >> > Exchange
> >> >> >> > uses.  At the time, it was an emergency procedure and I was not
> >> >> >> > able
> >> >> >> > to
> >> >> >> > get
> >> >> >> > to to successfully work.  Ideally, while I have the Exchange data
> >> >> >> > moved
> >> >> >> > off
> >> >> >> > to the 300gb drive I would like to rebuild the existing partition
> >> >> >> > that
> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> > data resides on, and return the one drive back to a hot spare for
> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> > array.
> >> >> >> > This would mean that the current I: would be destroyed and a new
> >> >> >> > one
> >> >> >> > created.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Also, we use Backup Exec to backup the Exchange server.  I have
> >> >> >> > never
> >> >> >> > had
> >> >> >> > to
> >> >> >> > do a restore of the server or the Exchange data files.  Before I
> >> >> >> > attempt
> >> >> >> > to
> >> >> >> > do any of this, I plan on restoring the current i: data from tape
> >> >> >> > onto
> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> > 300gb drive to see if it actually has the correct data for
> >> >> >> > exchange.
> >> >> >> > The
> >> >> >> > backup system was originally set up by a consultant who was here
> >> >> >> > for
> >> >> >> > two
> >> >> >> > days
> >> >> >> > and said it worked.
> >> >> >> > --
> >> >> >> > Lee K Harris
> >> >> >> > lee.har***@berbee.com
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>
>

"Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
news:8C263B8E-9900-4EA9-AE71-5BAEDB0C2F1C@microsoft.com...
> Its obvious from your postings you dont get it.
>
> Please let someone else respond to the issue this is not the forum for the
> responses you are providing.
>
> If you can not provide anything constructive based on the information I am
> looking to have answered then please dont respond.
>
> I think everyone gets the point now that you think I am wrong and I think
> you are wrong so leave it at that and lets move on.
>
> I posted this same exact question to the Microsoft Partner Managed
> Newsgroup
> and recieved and appropriate response.  For those of you wanting the
> answer
> to my question here it is:
>
> I would like to provide you with the following information:
>
> You may refer to the following KB article on how to move the Exchange
> cluster resources to another hard disk:
>
> How to move shared cluster resources to new hard disk drives by using the
> same drive letters in Exchange 2003 in a clustered environment
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927468
>
> For how to backup and restore an Exchange cluster resources, please refer
> to the following articles:
>
> How to Back Up the Exchange 2003 Databases That Are Stored on Shared Disk
> Resources
> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb123649.aspx
>
> Restoring Shared Disk Resources
> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb123984.aspx
>
> Also, you may perform the steps included in the following KB article to
> perform an Offline defragmentation to reduce the size of the Exchange
> database:
>
> How to defragment Exchange databases
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/328804
>
> Hope this helps. If anything is unclear, please feel free to post back
> into
> the newsgroup. I am standing by for your update.
>
> Thanks & Regards,
> Ryan Ye
>
> Microsoft Online Partner Support
>
> --
> Lee K Harris
> lee.har***@berbee.com
>
>
> "Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:
>
>> If you're capable of doing it yourself, why are you asking here?  Let's
>> review what you asked for:
>>
>> "Could you provide me with all of the possible options that might be
>> available with my type of situation so I can weigh each of them and
>> decide
>> which one I will do."
>>
>> That is a research paper.  You're asking for someone to do a lot of leg
>> work
>> for you and that's what consultants are paid to do.  I've given you some
>> pretty damn good advice, but I'm definitely not of the mind presently to
>> write a research paper for you outlining all possible options for you to
>> consider, especially not that I now have a very good indication what kind
>> of
>> character you are.
>>
>> Good day.
>> --
>> Ed Crowley
>> MVP - Exchange
>> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
>>
>> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
>> news:29FE29C5-823D-4507-A800-F3E4C71B2D8E@microsoft.com...
>> > This is a forum to ask questions and to seek specific guidance for
>> > issues
>> > and
>> > ways to correct problems an individual is having. I have no reason to
>> > hire
>> > a
>> > consultant to perform work I am completely capable of doing myself.
>> > Before
>> > I
>> > go messing things up because I am not following recommended Microsoft
>> > practices where a problem like mine is concerned I was seeking guidance
>> > as
>> > to
>> > the best possible route to take.
>> >
>> > I was not looking for someone to offer me advice on hiring a
>> > consultant.
>> > If
>> > you dont know the answer thats fine dont respond.
>> >
>> > I am sorry all your time is spoken for by your employer.  i guess you
>> > should
>> > not be participating in the newsgroup forums then. This is a helpful
>> > medium
>> > for individuals like me.  Your information was not not helpful.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Lee K Harris
>> > lee.har***@berbee.com
>> >
>> >
>> > "Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:
>> >
>> >> I wasn't offering my services, actually, as all of my time is spoken
>> >> for
>> >> by
>> >> my employer.  I was just suggesting, if too obliquely, that you are
>> >> asking
>> >> for a level of effort that requires the kind of effort for which you
>> >> would
>> >> need to hire a consultat.
>> >> --
>> >> Ed Crowley
>> >> MVP - Exchange
>> >> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
>> >>
>> >> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:1A744C48-1B79-4915-8BB8-50922E1BB677@microsoft.com...
>> >> > Sorry I mistaked this for a helpful forum not one soliciting sales.
>> >> > Thanks
>> >> > for the help.
>> >> >
>> >> > After all the definition of this medium is:
>> >> >
>> >> > TechNet Managed Newsgroups are available at no charge 24 x 7 to
>> >> > TechNet
>> >> > Plus
>> >> > subscribers to receive complimentary technical support on select
>> >> > Microsoft
>> >> > technologies as well as to share ideas with the community.
>> >> >
>> >> > TechNet Managed Newsgroups provide:
>> >> >
>> >> > Unlimited online technical support - Exchange information with your
>> >> > peers
>> >> > as
>> >> > well as gain assistance from Microsoft MVPs and Microsoft Support
>> >> > Professionals.
>> >> > A commitment to respond to your post by the next business day
>> >> > (English
>> >> > only).
>> >> > Over 100 English newsgroups to choose from.
>> >> > Spam protection for your e-mail address when posting items
>> >> >
>> >> > You should not be providing input if all your doing is looking for
>> >> > work.
>> >> > --
>> >> > Lee K Harris
>> >> > lee.har***@berbee.com
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > "Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Not without a consulting contract, sorry.
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Ed Crowley
>> >> >> MVP - Exchange
>> >> >> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:23FD3508-B84C-4AF6-B05B-997B2F9D23BC@microsoft.com...
>> >> >> > Could you provide me with all of the possible options that might
>> >> >> > be
>> >> >> > available
>> >> >> > with my type of situation so I can weigh each of them and decide
>> >> >> > which
>> >> >> > one
>> >> >> > I
>> >> >> > will do.
>> >> >> > --
>> >> >> > Lee K Harris
>> >> >> > lee.har***@berbee.com
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > "Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> If you know that you'll be able to get a substantial amount of
>> >> >> >> space
>> >> >> >> back
>> >> >> >> from compacting the database, then I suggest that you take a
>> >> >> >> weekend
>> >> >> >> outage
>> >> >> >> and do this:
>> >> >> >> 1.  Take a full online backup.
>> >> >> >> 2.  Run ESEUTIL /D and direct the temporary files to use the
>> >> >> >> temporary
>> >> >> >> 300GB
>> >> >> >> drive.
>> >> >> >> 3.  Take a full online backup.
>> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> Ed Crowley
>> >> >> >> MVP - Exchange
>> >> >> >> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
>> >> >> >> news:B396005D-DCFC-4C0F-BD14-0E2870902D21@microsoft.com...
>> >> >> >> > We have one Microsoft Exchange server.  It is a clustered
>> >> >> >> > server
>> >> >> >> > and
>> >> >> >> > both
>> >> >> >> > nodes of the cluster have had the operating system upgraded to
>> >> >> >> > Windows
>> >> >> >> > 2003
>> >> >> >> > Enterprise SP2.  I have not upgraded Exchange to SP2 because
>> >> >> >> > of
>> >> >> >> > storage
>> >> >> >> > space
>> >> >> >> > issues.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > This is what I need some help and guidance on:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > We have a clustered resource drive called I: where Exchange
>> >> >> >> > and
>> >> >> >> > our
>> >> >> >> > main
>> >> >> >> > information store reside.  In the past, the container for our
>> >> >> >> > information
>> >> >> >> > store grew to the point that it used up all of the 135gbs of
>> >> >> >> > space
>> >> >> >> > on
>> >> >> >> > that
>> >> >> >> > drive.  I can not add any additional drives to this array, so,
>> >> >> >> > I
>> >> >> >> > have
>> >> >> >> > no
>> >> >> >> > space available to apply the SP2 patch.  At least I don't
>> >> >> >> > think I
>> >> >> >> > do,
>> >> >> >> > since
>> >> >> >> > Microsoft recommends that I have 500mg available space to
>> >> >> >> > install
>> >> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> > patch.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > My plan is to copy all of the data, including the information
>> >> >> >> > store
>> >> >> >> > and
>> >> >> >> > Exchange files to a 300gb drive that I have installed in the
>> >> >> >> > local
>> >> >> >> > drive
>> >> >> >> > bank
>> >> >> >> > of one of our clustered servers.  I would then like to shrink
>> >> >> >> > or
>> >> >> >> > compress
>> >> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> > storage container to get it back down to a size that will fit
>> >> >> >> > on
>> >> >> >> > our
>> >> >> >> > array.
>> >> >> >> > Then move the data back to the clustered 135gb resource drive
>> >> >> >> > and
>> >> >> >> > apply
>> >> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> > Exchange SP2 and daylight savings time patch.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Complicating Issues:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > When our storage container hit the drive space limit on our
>> >> >> >> > clustered
>> >> >> >> > drive,
>> >> >> >> > I had one drive available in the physical array that I was
>> >> >> >> > using
>> >> >> >> > as
>> >> >> >> > a
>> >> >> >> > hot
>> >> >> >> > spare.  I attempted to use this drive to extend the partition
>> >> >> >> > that
>> >> >> >> > Exchange
>> >> >> >> > uses.  At the time, it was an emergency procedure and I was
>> >> >> >> > not
>> >> >> >> > able
>> >> >> >> > to
>> >> >> >> > get
>> >> >> >> > to to successfully work.  Ideally, while I have the Exchange
>> >> >> >> > data
>> >> >> >> > moved
>> >> >> >> > off
>> >> >> >> > to the 300gb drive I would like to rebuild the existing
>> >> >> >> > partition
>> >> >> >> > that
>> >> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> > data resides on, and return the one drive back to a hot spare
>> >> >> >> > for
>> >> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> > array.
>> >> >> >> > This would mean that the current I: would be destroyed and a
>> >> >> >> > new
>> >> >> >> > one
>> >> >> >> > created.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Also, we use Backup Exec to backup the Exchange server.  I
>> >> >> >> > have
>> >> >> >> > never
>> >> >> >> > had
>> >> >> >> > to
>> >> >> >> > do a restore of the server or the Exchange data files.  Before
>> >> >> >> > I
>> >> >> >> > attempt
>> >> >> >> > to
>> >> >> >> > do any of this, I plan on restoring the current i: data from
>> >> >> >> > tape
>> >> >> >> > onto
>> >> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> > 300gb drive to see if it actually has the correct data for
>> >> >> >> > exchange.
>> >> >> >> > The
>> >> >> >> > backup system was originally set up by a consultant who was
>> >> >> >> > here
>> >> >> >> > for
>> >> >> >> > two
>> >> >> >> > days
>> >> >> >> > and said it worked.
>> >> >> >> > --
>> >> >> >> > Lee K Harris
>> >> >> >> > lee.har***@berbee.com
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>>

"Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:

> I'm happy for you that you got a response from a paid Microsoft
> representative without having to pay for a support call.  I am an unpaid
> volunteer.  I am entering my tenth year of unpaid peer support for Exchange,
> and therefore I do not recognize you as any kind of authority on appropriate
> responses in this forum.  To the contrary, I recognize you as rude,
> unappreciative and arrogant.  Had you been less argumentative, more
> descriptive and had more initiative, you'd have found those KB articles on
> your own instead of displaying your insulting, petulant, childish behavior
> here.
> --
> Ed Crowley
> MVP - Exchange
> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
>
> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
> news:8C263B8E-9900-4EA9-AE71-5BAEDB0C2F1C@microsoft.com...
> > Its obvious from your postings you dont get it.
> >
> > Please let someone else respond to the issue this is not the forum for the
> > responses you are providing.
> >
> > If you can not provide anything constructive based on the information I am
> > looking to have answered then please dont respond.
> >
> > I think everyone gets the point now that you think I am wrong and I think
> > you are wrong so leave it at that and lets move on.
> >
> > I posted this same exact question to the Microsoft Partner Managed
> > Newsgroup
> > and recieved and appropriate response.  For those of you wanting the
> > answer
> > to my question here it is:
> >
> > I would like to provide you with the following information:
> >
> > You may refer to the following KB article on how to move the Exchange
> > cluster resources to another hard disk:
> >
> > How to move shared cluster resources to new hard disk drives by using the
> > same drive letters in Exchange 2003 in a clustered environment
> > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927468
> >
> > For how to backup and restore an Exchange cluster resources, please refer
> > to the following articles:
> >
> > How to Back Up the Exchange 2003 Databases That Are Stored on Shared Disk
> > Resources
> > http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb123649.aspx
> >
> > Restoring Shared Disk Resources
> > http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb123984.aspx
> >
> > Also, you may perform the steps included in the following KB article to
> > perform an Offline defragmentation to reduce the size of the Exchange
> > database:
> >
> > How to defragment Exchange databases
> > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/328804
> >
> > Hope this helps. If anything is unclear, please feel free to post back
> > into
> > the newsgroup. I am standing by for your update.
> >
> > Thanks & Regards,
> > Ryan Ye
> >
> > Microsoft Online Partner Support
> >
> > --
> > Lee K Harris
> > lee.har***@berbee.com
> >
> >
> > "Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:
> >
> >> If you're capable of doing it yourself, why are you asking here?  Let's
> >> review what you asked for:
> >>
> >> "Could you provide me with all of the possible options that might be
> >> available with my type of situation so I can weigh each of them and
> >> decide
> >> which one I will do."
> >>
> >> That is a research paper.  You're asking for someone to do a lot of leg
> >> work
> >> for you and that's what consultants are paid to do.  I've given you some
> >> pretty damn good advice, but I'm definitely not of the mind presently to
> >> write a research paper for you outlining all possible options for you to
> >> consider, especially not that I now have a very good indication what kind
> >> of
> >> character you are.
> >>
> >> Good day.
> >> --
> >> Ed Crowley
> >> MVP - Exchange
> >> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
> >>
> >> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
> >> news:29FE29C5-823D-4507-A800-F3E4C71B2D8E@microsoft.com...
> >> > This is a forum to ask questions and to seek specific guidance for
> >> > issues
> >> > and
> >> > ways to correct problems an individual is having. I have no reason to
> >> > hire
> >> > a
> >> > consultant to perform work I am completely capable of doing myself.
> >> > Before
> >> > I
> >> > go messing things up because I am not following recommended Microsoft
> >> > practices where a problem like mine is concerned I was seeking guidance
> >> > as
> >> > to
> >> > the best possible route to take.
> >> >
> >> > I was not looking for someone to offer me advice on hiring a
> >> > consultant.
> >> > If
> >> > you dont know the answer thats fine dont respond.
> >> >
> >> > I am sorry all your time is spoken for by your employer.  i guess you
> >> > should
> >> > not be participating in the newsgroup forums then. This is a helpful
> >> > medium
> >> > for individuals like me.  Your information was not not helpful.
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Lee K Harris
> >> > lee.har***@berbee.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > "Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I wasn't offering my services, actually, as all of my time is spoken
> >> >> for
> >> >> by
> >> >> my employer.  I was just suggesting, if too obliquely, that you are
> >> >> asking
> >> >> for a level of effort that requires the kind of effort for which you
> >> >> would
> >> >> need to hire a consultat.
> >> >> --
> >> >> Ed Crowley
> >> >> MVP - Exchange
> >> >> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
> >> >>
> >> >> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
> >> >> news:1A744C48-1B79-4915-8BB8-50922E1BB677@microsoft.com...
> >> >> > Sorry I mistaked this for a helpful forum not one soliciting sales.
> >> >> > Thanks
> >> >> > for the help.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > After all the definition of this medium is:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > TechNet Managed Newsgroups are available at no charge 24 x 7 to
> >> >> > TechNet
> >> >> > Plus
> >> >> > subscribers to receive complimentary technical support on select
> >> >> > Microsoft
> >> >> > technologies as well as to share ideas with the community.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > TechNet Managed Newsgroups provide:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Unlimited online technical support - Exchange information with your
> >> >> > peers
> >> >> > as
> >> >> > well as gain assistance from Microsoft MVPs and Microsoft Support
> >> >> > Professionals.
> >> >> > A commitment to respond to your post by the next business day
> >> >> > (English
> >> >> > only).
> >> >> > Over 100 English newsgroups to choose from.
> >> >> > Spam protection for your e-mail address when posting items
> >> >> >
> >> >> > You should not be providing input if all your doing is looking for
> >> >> > work.
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > Lee K Harris
> >> >> > lee.har***@berbee.com
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Not without a consulting contract, sorry.
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> Ed Crowley
> >> >> >> MVP - Exchange
> >> >> >> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
> >> >> >> news:23FD3508-B84C-4AF6-B05B-997B2F9D23BC@microsoft.com...
> >> >> >> > Could you provide me with all of the possible options that might
> >> >> >> > be
> >> >> >> > available
> >> >> >> > with my type of situation so I can weigh each of them and decide
> >> >> >> > which
> >> >> >> > one
> >> >> >> > I
> >> >> >> > will do.
> >> >> >> > --
> >> >> >> > Lee K Harris
> >> >> >> > lee.har***@berbee.com
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > "Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> If you know that you'll be able to get a substantial amount of
> >> >> >> >> space
> >> >> >> >> back
> >> >> >> >> from compacting the database, then I suggest that you take a
> >> >> >> >> weekend
> >> >> >> >> outage
> >> >> >> >> and do this:
> >> >> >> >> 1.  Take a full online backup.
> >> >> >> >> 2.  Run ESEUTIL /D and direct the temporary files to use the
> >> >> >> >> temporary
> >> >> >> >> 300GB
> >> >> >> >> drive.
> >> >> >> >> 3.  Take a full online backup.
> >> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> >> Ed Crowley
> >> >> >> >> MVP - Exchange
> >> >> >> >> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
> >> >> >> >> news:B396005D-DCFC-4C0F-BD14-0E2870902D21@microsoft.com...
> >> >> >> >> > We have one Microsoft Exchange server.  It is a clustered
> >> >> >> >> > server
> >> >> >> >> > and
> >> >> >> >> > both
> >> >> >> >> > nodes of the cluster have had the operating system upgraded to
> >> >> >> >> > Windows
> >> >> >> >> > 2003
> >> >> >> >> > Enterprise SP2.  I have not upgraded Exchange to SP2 because
> >> >> >> >> > of
> >> >> >> >> > storage
> >> >> >> >> > space
> >> >> >> >> > issues.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > This is what I need some help and guidance on:
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > We have a clustered resource drive called I: where Exchange
> >> >> >> >> > and
> >> >> >> >> > our
> >> >> >> >> > main
> >> >> >> >> > information store reside.  In the past, the container for our
> >> >> >> >> > information
> >> >> >> >> > store grew to the point that it used up all of the 135gbs of
> >> >> >> >> > space
> >> >> >> >> > on
> >> >> >> >> > that
> >> >> >> >> > drive.  I can not add any additional drives to this array, so,
> >> >> >> >> > I
> >> >> >> >> > have
> >> >> >> >> > no
> >> >> >> >> > space available to apply the SP2 patch.  At least I don't
> >> >> >> >> > think I
> >> >> >> >> > do,
> >> >> >> >> > since
> >> >> >> >> > Microsoft recommends that I have 500mg available space to
> >> >> >> >> > install
> >> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> >> > patch.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > My plan is to copy all of the data, including the information
> >> >> >> >> > store
> >> >> >> >> > and
> >> >> >> >> > Exchange files to a 300gb drive that I have installed in the
> >> >> >> >> > local
> >> >> >> >> > drive
> >> >> >> >> > bank
> >> >> >> >> > of one of our clustered servers.  I would then like to shrink
> >> >> >> >> > or
> >> >> >> >> > compress
> >> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> >> > storage container to get it back down to a size that will fit
> >> >> >> >> > on
> >> >> >> >> > our
> >> >> >> >> > array.
> >> >> >> >> > Then move the data back to the clustered 135gb resource drive
> >> >> >> >> > and
> >> >> >> >> > apply
> >> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> >> > Exchange SP2 and daylight savings time patch.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > Complicating Issues:
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > When our storage container hit the drive space limit on our
> >> >> >> >> > clustered
> >> >> >> >> > drive,
> >> >> >> >> > I had one drive available in the physical array that I was
> >> >> >> >> > using
> >> >> >> >> > as
> >> >> >> >> > a
> >> >> >> >> > hot
> >> >> >> >> > spare.  I attempted to use this drive to extend the partition
> >> >> >> >> > that
> >> >> >> >> > Exchange
> >> >> >> >> > uses.  At the time, it was an emergency procedure and I was
> >> >> >> >> > not

"Lee K Harris" <LeeKHar***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:EA865303-2C70-4821-92E1-CA2533ADBC4D@microsoft.com...
> Reported to Microsoft.  Thanks for your non productive reponses again.
>
> Have a good day.
>
> "Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:
>
>> I'm happy for you that you got a response from a paid Microsoft
>> representative without having to pay for a support call.  I am an unpaid
>> volunteer.  I am entering my tenth year of unpaid peer support for
>> Exchange,
>> and therefore I do not recognize you as any kind of authority on
>> appropriate
>> responses in this forum.  To the contrary, I recognize you as rude,
>> unappreciative and arrogant.  Had you been less argumentative, more
>> descriptive and had more initiative, you'd have found those KB articles
>> on
>> your own instead of displaying your insulting, petulant, childish
>> behavior
>> here.
>> --
>> Ed Crowley
>> MVP - Exchange
>> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
>>
>> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
>> news:8C263B8E-9900-4EA9-AE71-5BAEDB0C2F1C@microsoft.com...
>> > Its obvious from your postings you dont get it.
>> >
>> > Please let someone else respond to the issue this is not the forum for
>> > the
>> > responses you are providing.
>> >
>> > If you can not provide anything constructive based on the information I
>> > am
>> > looking to have answered then please dont respond.
>> >
>> > I think everyone gets the point now that you think I am wrong and I
>> > think
>> > you are wrong so leave it at that and lets move on.
>> >
>> > I posted this same exact question to the Microsoft Partner Managed
>> > Newsgroup
>> > and recieved and appropriate response.  For those of you wanting the
>> > answer
>> > to my question here it is:
>> >
>> > I would like to provide you with the following information:
>> >
>> > You may refer to the following KB article on how to move the Exchange
>> > cluster resources to another hard disk:
>> >
>> > How to move shared cluster resources to new hard disk drives by using
>> > the
>> > same drive letters in Exchange 2003 in a clustered environment
>> > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927468
>> >
>> > For how to backup and restore an Exchange cluster resources, please
>> > refer
>> > to the following articles:
>> >
>> > How to Back Up the Exchange 2003 Databases That Are Stored on Shared
>> > Disk
>> > Resources
>> > http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb123649.aspx
>> >
>> > Restoring Shared Disk Resources
>> > http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb123984.aspx
>> >
>> > Also, you may perform the steps included in the following KB article to
>> > perform an Offline defragmentation to reduce the size of the Exchange
>> > database:
>> >
>> > How to defragment Exchange databases
>> > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/328804
>> >
>> > Hope this helps. If anything is unclear, please feel free to post back
>> > into
>> > the newsgroup. I am standing by for your update.
>> >
>> > Thanks & Regards,
>> > Ryan Ye
>> >
>> > Microsoft Online Partner Support
>> >
>> > --
>> > Lee K Harris
>> > lee.har***@berbee.com
>> >
>> >
>> > "Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:
>> >
>> >> If you're capable of doing it yourself, why are you asking here?
>> >> Let's
>> >> review what you asked for:
>> >>
>> >> "Could you provide me with all of the possible options that might be
>> >> available with my type of situation so I can weigh each of them and
>> >> decide
>> >> which one I will do."
>> >>
>> >> That is a research paper.  You're asking for someone to do a lot of
>> >> leg
>> >> work
>> >> for you and that's what consultants are paid to do.  I've given you
>> >> some
>> >> pretty damn good advice, but I'm definitely not of the mind presently
>> >> to
>> >> write a research paper for you outlining all possible options for you
>> >> to
>> >> consider, especially not that I now have a very good indication what
>> >> kind
>> >> of
>> >> character you are.
>> >>
>> >> Good day.
>> >> --
>> >> Ed Crowley
>> >> MVP - Exchange
>> >> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
>> >>
>> >> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:29FE29C5-823D-4507-A800-F3E4C71B2D8E@microsoft.com...
>> >> > This is a forum to ask questions and to seek specific guidance for
>> >> > issues
>> >> > and
>> >> > ways to correct problems an individual is having. I have no reason
>> >> > to
>> >> > hire
>> >> > a
>> >> > consultant to perform work I am completely capable of doing myself.
>> >> > Before
>> >> > I
>> >> > go messing things up because I am not following recommended
>> >> > Microsoft
>> >> > practices where a problem like mine is concerned I was seeking
>> >> > guidance
>> >> > as
>> >> > to
>> >> > the best possible route to take.
>> >> >
>> >> > I was not looking for someone to offer me advice on hiring a
>> >> > consultant.
>> >> > If
>> >> > you dont know the answer thats fine dont respond.
>> >> >
>> >> > I am sorry all your time is spoken for by your employer.  i guess
>> >> > you
>> >> > should
>> >> > not be participating in the newsgroup forums then. This is a helpful
>> >> > medium
>> >> > for individuals like me.  Your information was not not helpful.
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Lee K Harris
>> >> > lee.har***@berbee.com
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > "Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> I wasn't offering my services, actually, as all of my time is
>> >> >> spoken
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> by
>> >> >> my employer.  I was just suggesting, if too obliquely, that you are
>> >> >> asking
>> >> >> for a level of effort that requires the kind of effort for which
>> >> >> you
>> >> >> would
>> >> >> need to hire a consultat.
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Ed Crowley
>> >> >> MVP - Exchange
>> >> >> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:1A744C48-1B79-4915-8BB8-50922E1BB677@microsoft.com...
>> >> >> > Sorry I mistaked this for a helpful forum not one soliciting
>> >> >> > sales.
>> >> >> > Thanks
>> >> >> > for the help.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > After all the definition of this medium is:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > TechNet Managed Newsgroups are available at no charge 24 x 7 to
>> >> >> > TechNet
>> >> >> > Plus
>> >> >> > subscribers to receive complimentary technical support on select
>> >> >> > Microsoft
>> >> >> > technologies as well as to share ideas with the community.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > TechNet Managed Newsgroups provide:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Unlimited online technical support - Exchange information with
>> >> >> > your
>> >> >> > peers
>> >> >> > as
>> >> >> > well as gain assistance from Microsoft MVPs and Microsoft Support
>> >> >> > Professionals.
>> >> >> > A commitment to respond to your post by the next business day
>> >> >> > (English
>> >> >> > only).
>> >> >> > Over 100 English newsgroups to choose from.
>> >> >> > Spam protection for your e-mail address when posting items
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > You should not be providing input if all your doing is looking
>> >> >> > for
>> >> >> > work.
>> >> >> > --
>> >> >> > Lee K Harris
>> >> >> > lee.har***@berbee.com
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > "Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Not without a consulting contract, sorry.
>> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> Ed Crowley
>> >> >> >> MVP - Exchange
>> >> >> >> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
>> >> >> >> news:23FD3508-B84C-4AF6-B05B-997B2F9D23BC@microsoft.com...
>> >> >> >> > Could you provide me with all of the possible options that
>> >> >> >> > might
>> >> >> >> > be
>> >> >> >> > available
>> >> >> >> > with my type of situation so I can weigh each of them and
>> >> >> >> > decide
>> >> >> >> > which
>> >> >> >> > one
>> >> >> >> > I
>> >> >> >> > will do.
>> >> >> >> > --
>> >> >> >> > Lee K Harris
>> >> >> >> > lee.har***@berbee.com
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > "Ed Crowley [MVP]" wrote:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> If you know that you'll be able to get a substantial amount
>> >> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> >> space
>> >> >> >> >> back
>> >> >> >> >> from compacting the database, then I suggest that you take a
>> >> >> >> >> weekend
>> >> >> >> >> outage
>> >> >> >> >> and do this:
>> >> >> >> >> 1.  Take a full online backup.
>> >> >> >> >> 2.  Run ESEUTIL /D and direct the temporary files to use the
>> >> >> >> >> temporary
>> >> >> >> >> 300GB
>> >> >> >> >> drive.
>> >> >> >> >> 3.  Take a full online backup.
>> >> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> >> Ed Crowley
>> >> >> >> >> MVP - Exchange
>> >> >> >> >> "Protecting the world from PSTs and brick backups!"
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> "Lee K Harris" <lee.har***@berbee.com> wrote in message
>> >> >> >> >> news:B396005D-DCFC-4C0F-BD14-0E2870902D21@microsoft.com...
>> >> >> >> >> > We have one Microsoft Exchange server.  It is a clustered
>> >> >> >> >> > server
>> >> >> >> >> > and
>> >> >> >> >> > both
>> >> >> >> >> > nodes of the cluster have had the operating system upgraded
>> >> >> >> >> > to
>> >> >> >> >> > Windows
>> >> >> >> >> > 2003
>> >> >> >> >> > Enterprise SP2.  I have not upgraded Exchange to SP2
>> >> >> >> >> > because
>> >> >> >> >> > of
>> >> >> >> >> > storage
>> >> >> >> >> > space
>> >> >> >> >> > issues.
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > This is what I need some help and guidance on:
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > We have a clustered resource drive called I: where Exchange
>> >> >> >> >> > and
>> >> >> >> >> > our
>> >> >> >> >> > main
>> >> >> >> >> > information store reside.  In the past, the container for
>> >> >> >> >> > our
>> >> >> >> >> > information
>> >> >> >> >> > store grew to the point that it used up all of the 135gbs
>> >> >> >> >> > of
>> >> >> >> >> > space
>> >> >> >> >> > on
>> >> >> >> >> > that
>> >> &g